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Veterans plenary
Question and Answer Session with the Minister for Veterans
- The Veterans Plenary held at the Victory Services Club on 26
March 2003
(First - attended by Minister)
Terry English - The Royal British Legion
Q1 Minister this is a question for you regarding the Gulf. I think we are all aware that the newspapers reported recently that 40 per cent of those deployed refused to take the anthrax injections. Could you say what changes have taken place to the immunisation programme for this war compared to 1991 by establishing what changes have occurred in protocols, particularly with regard to the Reserves who may be behind with any immunisation programme?
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A1 As you know, the MOD operates a voluntary programme. We do not put pressure on anyone to have inoculations, although we encourage them to do so. We do try to encourage everyone in our Armed Forces to remain up to date with the routine inoculations, both Reserves and Regular Forces. We now have the Mounting Centre at Chilwell where pre-deployment briefing takes place and Grantham where we undertake medical assessments and update inoculations and medical records. I've put a lot of effort into encouraging people to ensure they are up to date, remain up to date and are properly recorded. With regard to Anthrax, I visited the Gulf a couple of weeks ago to talk to members of one or two regiments, and all of those I spoke to had been inoculated. Something between 85 and 95 per cent of those on the ground had had the Anthrax vaccination. It is much lower in the Navy, something like 45 to 50 per cent, although this relates to a much lower level of perceived risk. We are doing more to address some of the fears and have produced a leaflet outlining the position. The Anthrax vaccine has been used for many years now and there has never been a recorded incidence of serious side-effects. The normal reaction is a sore arm and flu-like symptoms for a few days. I can assure you we have put a lot of effort into this area.
James Moore - National Gulf Veterans and Families Association
Q2 Given the extremely good job our forces are doing in Iraq at the moment, would now be a good time to acknowledge Gulf war illnesses and the various diagnoses by GPs? This may alleviate any fears that those returning may have at the moment, so if they did come back and did become ill they could have every confidence that there would be both medial and financial support available and they would not be left to argue their case for in excess of 12 years.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A2 Can I just say that whatever mistakes were made in the past we now have the gift of hindsight and as with so many things - and not just inoculations - many of our medical procedures have been changed and updated. This includes medical records to allow us to keep track of what people are inoculated against and I think that our record keeping is now very much better than in the past owing to these changes. Having said that, I met with TRBL and several of my Parliamentary colleagues yesterday and it struck me that we could be doing more debriefing when people return from deployments, and I am going to try to make sure that there is access to helpline facilities so queries arising from active service in the Gulf are answered properly.
With regard to Gulf veterans illnesses, you must know that the medical profession generally, and I am still proud to be a member of that profession, are not prepared to accept that there is a specific syndrome which can be used to explain all illnesses relating to the Gulf for the reason that there is a wide diversity in the nature of illnesses. Now let me make it clear that to you this does not in any way affect the way in which we treat those who have developed symptoms as a result of service in the Gulf. They are assessed and given a good war pension for the attributable disability they experience just like anyone else. So the application of a specific label would make no difference whatsoever to the benefits they receive.
Norman Carter - Veterans Support UK
Q3 Thank you Minister. In the south-east of England, you will be aware of the housing problems and lack of affordable housing. We as an organisation are becoming increasingly frustrated when having to point out to the local authorities their responsibilities to ex-service personnel. Would it be possible for your department to make local authorities, particularly in the south-east where there is an acute housing shortage, aware of the rights of ex-service personnel under the Housing Act so that time whilst in service can contribute to moving higher up the waiting list for housing prior to being discharged? It is very frustrating and we are finding this extremely annoying.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A3 I am sure this is vital and I am very happy to try to reinforce our approach to this issue in any way I can. I will probably ask the Joint Service Housing Advisory Office to bring this to the attention of the responsible Department. That does not take away from the fact that there is a responsibility to provide affordable social housing in general.
Derek Redfern - British Nuclear Test Veterans
Q4 Whilst the 3rd Report into British Test Veterans is a useful and insightful academic report, it is largely irrelevant. I disagree with the report's findings and believe that all Nuclear Test Veterans who were exposed to a radiation dose should be in receipt of a war pension. Is the Minister prepared to concede this?
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A4 No I am sorry, the Minister will not concede that at all. Careful research has been carried out and the levels of radiation doses have been fully documented and where a link is established then clearly the action you propose would be proper. However, research has not found that to be the case.
Derek Redfern - British Nuclear Test Veterans
Then in that case I have to advise the Minister that veterans' patience has come to an end. The time has come to take action. Legal proceedings will be issued against you shortly.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
That is your right in a democratic society.
William Cooper - The Samaritans
Q5 Coming back to your address Minister, you indicated that people were only entitled to the full resettlement package if they served more than five years and I was wondering. My experience is that the people who serve the shortest time are the least adequate to provide for their own resettlement. Given the considerable number of those who serve less than five years and who are not entitled to the full resettlement package is there some way that this group could be supported?
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A5 I think that's going to be covered later, but from my own point of view you do make a valid point. Part of my remit is to establish a proper basis from which to move forward. I promise you that where I see problems like this I'll do what I can.
Debbie Bowles - War Widows Association
Q6 We recognise that fundamental changes to the structure of our society led to the new arrangements for partners within the MOD's Pension and Compensation schemes. However I would now like to ask the Minister to provide the same practical consideration to the older members of the War Widows Association who would like to have the freedom to seek the comfort of a new partner without risking loosing their pension entitlements. When they see the freedom available to young women today they wonder why they are still singled out for punishment.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A6 I could make use of the same weasel phrases about being bound by retrospection, but this would offer no comfort. Please continue to discuss this point with my officials.
Ken Earle - Porton Down Test Volunteers
Q7 Should Chemical and Biological weapons be used in Iraq, can the troops expect the same lack of care that my members experienced? There is still no follow-up after 48 years.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A7 Were this to happen, those affected could expect to receive the standard of care appropriate to the present day. All the compounds used in the Porton Down Tests have been thoroughly examined and subject to new trials. There is no evidence of any long term deleterious effects.
Gary Cartwright - National Ex-Service Association
Q8 Have you thought about following the example in the US Military, where Armed Forces Personnel gather credits during service that enable them to move into Higher Education? This goes some way to addressing the skills shortage and giving service leavers an edge.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A8 Good point. We use Higher Education as a pre-recruitment boost. In-service education incentives are currently under consideration. I will ask DCDS(Pers) to look into this.
Sir David Cousins - Royal Air Force Benevolent Fund
Q9 Good morning Minister. If there are a significant number of casualties returning from the Gulf, God forbid, are there enough arrangements in place to ensure sufficient rehabilitation or would you like us to try to make space available in those specialist care homes under the COBSEO umbrella to ensure that all those who need help, get it?
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A9 I have to say we obviously don't know how many casualties we are going to have and I cannot predict a figure. I am confident that in the short term, rehabilitation has been properly catered for. I think what we should do is keep a very close eye on what's going on, although I am very grateful for the offer.
Martin Walkinshaw - South Atlantic Medal Association 82
Q10 Good morning Minister. I would be particularly grateful if you could outline whether the Incapacity Benefit anomaly, as it affects the Armed Forces, will be resolved by the target date?
DG SP Pol - Liz McLoughlin
A10 The target date remains 03.05.03, but this is dependant on the second set of draft Regulations being agreed by the Social Security Advisory Committee prior to being laid before the House. All being well, that target date remains achievable.
Toby Elliott - Combat Stress
Q11 Thank you and good morning Minister. Turning to another theatre of operations, and one that has caused a huge amount of casualties to the Armed Forces, Northern Ireland. For many years my charity, Combat Stress, has been able to benefit from Northern Ireland Office (NIO) money which was provided to the Army Benevolent Fund (ABF) to help meet some of the costs for providing welfare. That money has run out, not altogether, but we can't get a grant to cover our operating costs in Northern Ireland, which are significant.
I was very surprised when I was trying to lever money from the NIO myself to discover that a research programme on the mainland is looking at mainland troops rather than the Home Service troops that we look after in Northern Ireland. The research focuses on the needs of our veterans deployed in Northern Ireland and who now live on the mainland. Now this implies that the NIO have got money to spend. I just wondered whether your secretariat knew about this research and indeed the fact that the NIO consider veterans of the Armed Forces need help?
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A11 I have to confess no knowledge of this.
D SP Pol Veterans - Malcolm Lingwood
A11 A researcher has been in touch with us and we received a letter on the study the other day. We are at the moment looking into the background and will get back to you.
Toby Elliott - Combat Stress
Q11 Well, that's great. I think if we can encourage the representatives of the Devolved Administrations and the NIO to attend the Veterans Forum then we might be better informed.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A11 I will seek to speak with the relevant Minister concerned
as soon as I can and find out what they are doing and see how that may be
integrated into the work of the Veterans Initiative.
Stuart Gendall - The Royal British Legion
Q12 Could we please have an update on arrangements for the 60th Anniversary of D Day?
Hd DSSec(Sec) - John Sinfield
A12 MOD is providing administrative support to the Normandy Veterans Association and other organisations. One military band will be sent to Normandy. The present situation means that there are tight constraints on the availability of any other military support. Some other commemorative projects are still in the planning stage and the Normandy Veterans Association is in close contact.
Charles Clarke - Royal Air Force Ex-Prisoners of War Association
Q13 I have spent many years trying to highlight the injustice of money deducted from our pay whilst we were imprisoned. Despite agreement from all parties on the merits of our case, all we have received is platitudes, never a refund. Can I persuade you to have a meeting with one or two of the survivors to listen once more to their case?
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A13 I have never ducked a challenge. Please make the arrangements with the Veterans Affairs Secretariat.
George Gadd - Chairman of the British/Korean Veterans Association
Q14 I'd like to thank the Ministry of Defence through the Minister for sponsoring the events around the 9th July to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the ending of hostilities. I am also particularly grateful to John Sinfield and his team.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A14 Thank you very much for that point.
George Levy - War Veterans Association
Q15 The Day before my 62nd Birthday my take-home Service Pension was reduced, can someone explain why?
D SP Pol Pensions - Jonathan Iremonger
A15 Pensions are increased each year in line with the Retail Price Index, I would be happy to look into the specifics of your case if you see me afterwards.
Fred Ryall - Far East Prisoners of War Association
My colleague mentions deductions - you may all wish to know that after 3½ years in a Far Eastern Prison Camp my salary was made up, less subsistence allowance.
(Laughter)
Rita Locke - Royal Naval Association
Q16 The same percentage of Pension paid to servicemen's widow is not mandatorily transferred to surviving 2nd wives. In many professions marriage is not necessary in order for a partner to receive a pension. Why can't a second wife count prior to 1978, given the level of support by over sixty MPs on this issue?
D SP Pol Pensions - Jonathan Iremonger
A16 Pensions have increased over the years, however, the question
of marriage and retrospection since the rules changed is something I am not
able to facilitate.
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A17 This is a perennial question which is raised with me. I am sympathetic, but remain realistic and must say that there is almost no chance of this being accomplished.
James Gordon - Forces Pension Society
Q18 Minister, I would just like to reinforce the previous point. I think the key differential here, which I have pointed out to you before, is that the chances of an Armed Forces person marrying after they have retired is higher than elsewhere in the population and this is caused by many factors, not least of which is short length of service. My view, and it is also that of my society, is that Service in the Armed Forces puts Armed Forces personnel in a special position and therefore they should be treated specially. We hear many, many good things said by the Prime Minister and the Minister for Veterans about the importance of the unique contribution made by Armed Forces personnel to their country. The diminishing number of veterans should be treated specially including, I would argue in respect of retrospection.
Large round of applause
Minister for Veterans - Dr Moonie
A18 I have to say to Maj Gen Gordon that this is something we have discussed at our meetings and that if I could find any way to provide a resolution to this issue I would, but legally I don't think I can with regard to this issue of retrospection.
Dr Moonie closed the morning session by offering the apology that he was required in the House. Her Majesty's Armed Forces were presently engaged in an extremely dangerous enterprise. He was confident it would be over reasonably quickly and at reasonably low cost. He prayed the Forces would be back soon and that the action taken would be successful.
