Present

Ivor Caplin MP
Julian Miller
COBSEO Executive Committee
Maj Gen Mike Shellard
Capt Alun Ryle

Cdre Barry Bryant
Maj Gen Sir Evelyn Webb-Carter
Air Chf Mshl Sir David Cousins
Maj Gen Peter Sheppard
Lt Col Jerome Church
Cdre Toby Elliott
Geoff Hardie
Cdre Barry Leighton
Debbie Bowles
Cdr Tony Herdman
Col Martin Gibson

COBSEO Advisers
John McDermott
Lt Col Jeremy Hinton
Other Government Departments
Richard Wendland
Howard Thompson
Paula Kitching
Carol Gardner
Roy Goodacre
Kenneth Robbie
Rosemary Kennedy
Mark McGann
Geraldine Bakelmun
Ministry of Defence
Malcolm Lingwood
Alan Burnham
Jonathan Iremonger
Dr Anne Braidwood
Brigid Rodgers
Mike Sands
John Sinfield
Lt Col Peter Willis

Minister for Veterans
DG SP Pol

Chairman COBSEO
Vice Chairman COBSEO
(also representing TRBL)
King George's Fund for Sailors
ABF
RAFBF
SSAFA Forces Help
BLESMA
Combat Stress
FPS
RNA
War Widows Association
Veterans Scotland
Veterans Scotland


RAFA
St Dunstans

ODPM
DCA
DfES
DWP
HMT
Scotland Office, DCA
National Assembly for Wales
New Opportunities Fund
Home Office

D SP Pol Veterans & GVIU
CE VA
D SP Pol Pensions
D SP Pol Medical Adviser
GVIU 3
DD SP Pol Veterans
Head of DSSec(Sec)
AD SP Pol Veterans

Chairman

In Attendance

Maj Rosemary Warne
Mr Alex Cruttwell
Clare Caldin

Secretary COBSEO
PS/Minister for Veterans
GVIU

Secretariat

WO Gary Gray

Veterans Affairs Secretariat

Apologies

Brig Ian Townsend
Maj Gen James Gordon
Air Cdre Ed Jarron
Robert Leader
Peter Thomas
Chris Butcher
Alex Johnston
Gwyn Owens
Paul Woods
Alan Nicholson
Nigel Rowland
Billy Gamble
Samantha Heywood
Lt Gen Anthony Palmer
Cdre Annette Picton

TRBL
FPS
RAFA
St Dunstans
FCO
LGA
DCA
DCMS
DoH
Scottish Executive
Welsh Office, DCA
Northern Ireland Executive
IWM
DCDS(Pers)
D Resettlement

1

Minutes and Actions Arising from Last Meeting

1. Welcome. The Chairman, Ivor Caplin, Minister for Veterans, welcomed members to the 5th Veterans Forum and, in particular, gave a warm welcome to those attending the Forum for the first time. The Minister also voiced his appreciation for the efforts of Liz McLoughlin in the Veterans arena during her tenure as DG SP Pol. He was grateful for the opportunity to have met many of those around the table for introductory discussions and emphasised his open-door approach to doing business. He indicated that the full agenda and the diversity of the organisations represented at the Forum displayed the cross-cutting nature of the Veterans Initiative. Finally, the Minister reiterated his personal commitment to ensure that the correct arrangements were in place for the 60th Anniversaries in 2004 and 2005.

2. Minutes of Last Meeting. Minister for Veterans invited Forum members to approve the minutes of the Veterans Forum held on 5 Mar 03. The minutes were approved unanimously.

3. Matters Arising from Minutes of Last Meeting. The following actions were arising from the minutes of the last meeting:

a. Senior International Forum. D SP Pol Veterans Policy Unit (D VPU) advised that action points from Dec 02 SIF had now been carried forward and outcomes would be reported at the next SIF in Feb 04 in New Zealand. Whilst COBSEO input will always be sought for the SIF it is the view of fellow SIF delegates that the SIF should remain at an official level. Minister for Veterans advised that he was establishing Ministerial-links with his SIF colleagues and it was his hope to host a SIF Ministerial summit in 2004.

Decision. It was decided that D VPU should ensure that a COBSEO input was obtained once the agenda for the Feb 04 SIF had been received.

b. MOD Income Generation Policy. AD SP Pol Veterans advised that MOD's income generation policy was a complex issue and that the MOD was in essence enforcing the rules as applied by HMT. COBSEO members expressed their irritation about the policy and asked that a conclusion be reached as soon as possible.

Decision. Minister directed D VPU to meet the MOD's finance staff to resolve the issue of the MOD's income generation policy as it applied to ex-Service organisations and report back to the next Forum on 25 May 2004.

c. Progress with Community Legal Services Leaflet. DCA advised that progress with the planned production of a Community Legal Services (CLS) leaflet dealing with Veterans matters continued and that a decision was expected from the Legal Services Commission shortly. The delay had been caused by the fact that a Veterans leaflet would be targeted at a specific client group as opposed to a specific legal problem, as happened with the existing 24 leaflets. DCA further advised that it was hoped that the leaflet would be produced early in the New Year. Minister for Veterans expressed his gratitude to DCA. Combat Stress requested that COBSEO have sight of the leaflet before final production.

Decision. It was decided that the draft CLS leaflet should be circulated to COBSEO members for comment before final production.

d. Concessionary Passports for Veterans Attending World War II Commemorative Events. AD SP Pol Veterans advised that VAS had been working closely with the UK Passport Service, TRBL and the ex-Service community to ensure that arrangements for the issue of concessionary passports were as straightforward as possible. Final arrangements were now in place. These have been distributed throughout the veterans' community and the first application had arrived at the UK Passport Service. TRBL welcomed the simplicity of the arrangements and commended the mechanism of direct liaison between veterans' organisations and UK Passport Service. Minister for Veterans stated that this was a good example of cross-cutting cooperation and he was extremely grateful for the efforts of the Home Office and, in particular, the UK Passport Service.

D VPU

D VPU

D VPU

2

Revised Working Arrangements

1. D VPU gave a brief summary of the revised working arrangements. He outlined the projects that would take place within the 3 work streams: transition; support; and recognition:

a. Transition. Veterans ID Cards, mentoring research and Early Leavers Scheme.

b. Support. Cost of Care Survey, Mental Health and Welfare Support.

c. Recognition. Education Project, plus linked Veterans Opportunity Project and Lapel Badge.

He reported that the Executive Steering Group (ESG), which will direct the work of the projects, had held its inaugural meeting. The core membership of this group included representatives from MOD, COBSEO and OGDs. He expressed his gratitude to COBSEO for their positive response to the new working arrangements and the level of involvement and commitment they would bring to the individual projects.

2. Minister for Veterans invited the work stream managers to outline the progress that was being made in their respective areas.

a. Transition. Leading on this work stream, AD SP Pol Veterans outlined the following areas of work:

(1) ID Cards. Nominations had been received from COBSEO and a meeting will be held before Christmas in order that a report can be submitted to the ESG for their meeting on 13 Jan 03.

(2) Early Leavers Scheme. He described the Early Leavers Scheme that would be in place by 1 Apr 04. The introduction of this scheme would benefit: those compulsorily discharged; those who withdraw from training and those with less than the recognised length of service. It was estimated that there could be as many as 9,300 early leavers per annum.

(3) Mentoring Research. He advised that mentoring research would commence in Feb 04 to identify whether MOD could improve the ability of vulnerable Service leavers to adapt to life outside the Services through the provision of a suitably trained adviser. Invitations to tender had been issued.

b. Support. D SP Pol Medical Adviser gave a comprehensive presentation on how issues were being taken forward in the Support work stream. Her speaking notes are attached at Enclosure 1 for ease of reference.

c. Recognition. This work stream will be minuted under Item 3.

3. Discussion. Minister for Veterans confirmed that action had been taken concerning the destruction of ID Cards on discharge. Combat Stress suggested that the mentoring research should also cover those who had left the Services. WWA suggested that it should include widows. TRBL confirmed their intention to serve on all the new project teams and welcomed the news that the study into the cost of long-term care would be restarted. TRBL and SSAFA Forces Help asked for the opportunity to comment on terms of reference before they were presented to the ESG.

Decisions. It was decided that:

a. D VPU should ensure that any gaps in the revised working arrangements (eg. TORs) should be filled at the earliest opportunity.

b. D VPU should circulate a news sheet outlining developments within the project groups.

c. Minister for Veterans confirmed that the next Forum would include a progress report from each work stream.

D VPU

D VPU

D VPU

3

60th Anniversary Commemorative Events/

Education Project

1. Recognition. DD SP Pol Veterans advised that good progress was being made with the Education Project, which would draw on real life experiences of veterans for the backbone of its materials. In 2004/05 the project would be linked to WWII Commemorations and would seek to involve the young in the Remembrance process. The opportunity to secure New Opportunities Fund (NOF) money for veterans' opportunities projects was a significant development and would allow veterans groups to bid for funding to support commemorative events. Turning to the Commemorative booklets for selected campaigns, DD SP Pol Veterans advised that plans were in place to produce booklets for: Kohima (Apr 04); Monte Cassino (May 04); D-Day (Jun 04); and Arnhem (Sep 04). Finally, DD SP Pol Veterans outlined plans to produce a veterans' lapel badge for issuing to those who travel to commemorative events. Design options are being reviewed and the intention, in conjunction with COBSEO, was to submit recommendations to the Minister in the New Year.

2. Education Project. DfES gave a brief outline of the Education Project and stated that there were several aims to its strategy. Among them, to tie in education at every level both in the school curriculum and in the wider citizenship area; encourage community involvement; and raising awareness in community diversity. A schools challenge was also being put in place to encourage children to identify with the past, with the school presenting the most inspiring challenge being given the opportunity to travel to Normandy. Lessons learned from 2004 would be taken forward to ensure an even larger effort in 2005 and, if successful, the structure would be used for subsequent commemorative events.

3. NOF. NOF advised that they were delighted to have the opportunity to provide financial support to assist veterans groups participating in 60th anniversary commemorative events. Funding had been put in place to allow the project to go ahead without delay so that ideas could be taken forward.

4. Discussions. Minister for Veterans advised that he would attend as many of the commemorative events that his diary would allow and that discussions regarding royal/high level attendance continued. He further advised that a tri-Service event would be held in Jul 05 to commemorate the end of World War II. He would also like the veterans badge to be issued to all those who leave the Services at some time in the future. Finally, Minister for Veterans advised that a ministerial launch of the education project would take place early in the New Year. Veterans Scotland and National Assembly for Wales emphasised the need to include the Devolved Administrations in the education project. In particular, the National Assembly for Wales confirmed the need for all supporting material to be translated into Welsh before it was published. DfES confirmed that the education project would be open to the DAs. SSAFA Forces Help suggested that spouses of Service leavers should also be eligible for the commemorative badge. Minister for Veterans agreed that this would also be considered.

Decisions. It was decided that:

a. AD SP Pol Veterans should, under part of the transition work stream, consider the merit of providing Service leavers with a lapel badge.

b. D VPU should (initially) consider the merits of providing a lapel badge to spouses attending 60th Anniversary Commemorative events.

AD SP Pol Veterans

D VPU

4

Update on Challenge Fund

1. D VPU advised that so far 15 bids had been received for funding from the Challenge Fund. Following the close cooperation with the NOF, it was likely that some of the bids would be forwarded for their consideration. However, any bids that were redirected to NOF would continue to be coordinated by MOD. He further advised that the bids so far received to date were wide-ranging and once results of the scrutinising process had been completed, letters would be sent giving the decisions made. Chairman COBSEO expressed his satisfaction with the staffing system in place and looked forward to receiving more applications.

Decision. Minister for Veterans reminded the Forum that it was essential that the money was utilised wisely and he requested that respective organisations considered how they could use money from the Challenge Fund.

All

5

Update on Communication Implementation Group Work Plan

1. CE VA reported that the implementation group, now called the Communications Action Team, had met on schedule and were now firming up their work plan for presentation to the ESG on 13 Jan 04. Work has already taken place in a number of areas including:

· production of an information pack to help organisations pass on information and educate front line deliverers;

· consideration of putting this information on a CD;

· raising awareness amongst hard to reach and vulnerable groups and establishing contacts with organisations like Shelter, the Samaritans and the Salvation Army; and,

· investigating the feasibility of a Veterans Awareness week in 2004 or 2005.

2. Discussion. TRBL advised that it was fully supportive of Veterans Awareness Week but felt that it may be better to hold such an event later rather than sooner as there was so much going on in the next two years. TRBL suggested that a summer week would be ideal for such an event so as to spread the focus on Veterans throughout the year. Minister for Veterans acknowledged this and suggested the week preceding the Jul 05 tri-Service commemorative event.

Decision. It was decided that the Head of CAT should make plans for a Veterans Awareness week to take place in July 2005.

Head of CAT

6

Pensions and Compensation Review

1. Minister for Veterans expressed his close personal interest in the review and advised that this subject had been included in the recent Queen's Speech and that the Armed Forces Pensions and Compensation Bill would be published on 4 Dec 03. The review was a result of close cooperation with a number of groups but that there had been some areas where it had not been possible to satisfy all concerns.

2. D SP Pol Pensions outlined the major changes to the Pension scheme; namely the 25% increase in widows' pensions and an increase in death-in-service benefit from between 1 and 1.5 times pensionable pay at present to 4 times pensionable pay for the new scheme. In addition, pension and compensation benefits would also be extended to substantial unmarried partners under the new schemes. These changes, together with the costs of longer life expectancy, would be funded by a reduction in the value of benefits paid at the Immediate Pension Point.

3. D SP Pol Pensions went on to outline the new Compensation scheme which included: increasing the time allowed to claim from the original proposal of three years to five; and the introduction of a provision for exceptional review of decisions on claims where it had not been possible for a claimant to meet the time limits or where major unexpected deterioration of a condition had made the original award unfair. The Veterans Agency would implement the new scheme.

4. D SP Pol Pensions advised that it was planned to introduce the new schemes in Apr 05, following legislation, though it may not be possible to offer the option of joining the new pension scheme to those currently serving until up to 2 years after that. Close liaison with ex-Service groups would continue in order that any nuances regarding the scheme could be resolved.

5. TRBL advised that much of the Review was an enhancement but that they still had reservations about the new arrangements for compensation. In their opinion the burden of proof change from "reasonable doubt" to "balance of probabilities" would be very much to the disadvantage of those who served after 05 and they would continue to campaign to retain the existing criterion. WWA advised that in burden of proof cases the widow was always disadvantaged and the loss of short-term pensions would have implications for widows. WWA further advised that they had some ideas that would bridge the short term pensions eligibility gap.

6. Minister for Veterans recognised the concerns raised and asked those organisations who wished to make representations on the new schemes to do so to D SP Pol Pensions at the earliest opportunity.

7

Any Other Business

1. There were no items of other business.

8

Arrangements for Next Meeting

1. Minister for Veterans advised that the next meeting of the Veterans Forum would take place in the Army & Navy Club on 25 May 04 at 1100 hours. He further advised that the next meeting of the Veterans Task Force would take place in Admiralty House on 21 Jan 04 at 1030 hours and encouraged OGD representatives to ensure that the date was in the relevant Minister's diary.